On the conflict with Colombia

Now, to follow up on the question of South American integration, I want to take up the issue of Colombia. I know there are expectations in that country, in both countries, in Colombia and Venezuela, and the problem which arose this month, well, it already had an impact, as one could only expect, on Latin America and other parts of the world, on various governments and international institutions that have been expressing their concerns. And they are justified in their concern over this problem having to do with a crime that has been committed, that is the heart of the question.

 I want to take up the issue on today’s program, on Aló Presidente, from the point of view of integration because after thinking long on the matter, having read about the facts which led up to the crime, after having found out the details, as I have been doing, hour after hour, investigating —and we’re investigating things thoroughly here— the events leading up to the crime, how it happened, how it infringes on Venezuelan sovereignty; awaiting, at all times, the response or the reaction of sister Colombia, keeping abreast of the opinions expressed by different political and economic sectors in Venezuela and Colombia; attentive to the opinions coming from other countries of the Americas, from the American continent especially, well, I have been taking in information, processing it, dredging up the patience needed to address the problem, a problem which has produced  —there’s no doubt about it —a crisis, a crisis, we cannot deny it, we have to call a spade a spade. There is a crisis at the moment.

 To begin with, both governments, Colombia’s and Venezuela’s government must recognize this, must recognize the truth. I am always making the effort, in the welter of information that I receive, to grasp, to get to the truth, the essence of truth, and to hold on to it, to the truth, and to push aside any other bit of rubbish, any confusing element; I always try to identify these elements, first and foremost, and treat them and all misinformation, half-truths, all beating around the bush accordingly, so as to cling to the central core of truth, the truth, and to act in accordance with the truth.

 Now, the integration of Latin America. Having thought about this process long, I being informed, and having analyzed the matter and exchanged views with others, I have no doubt in my mind that this act is part of a conspiratorial strategy aimed at impeding the integration, not only of Colombia and Venezuela, but also the process of integration which has been gathering strength recently, especially in the last few months, in Latin America, in the Caribbean and, especially, in South America. I haven’t the slightest doubt that we are facing a plot, another one, an element of a strategy that is very old, you know, very, very old.

 When Simón Bolívar proposed the idea of the Congress of Panama, they started to call him crazy, they started poisoning the mind of Santander in Bogotá, the mind of Páez in Caracas and those of other leaders; the international campaign to discredit Bolívar got underway in Europe, and it succeeded to some extent. This is why Bolívar dies saying that phrase, Bolívar’s last words, every word has to be read and analyzed carefully, because they are a dying man’s words, he was pouring his soul into them, he didn’t want to take anything to the grave, I suppose. And he had almost given up the ghost when he wrote that —it wasn’t a decorative phrase meant to embellish a speech, it was his naked soul which was captured and etched forever on that piece of paper: “My enemies took advantage of your credulity and trampled on what is most sacred, my reputation” —they trampled on it— “and my love of freedom”. They started to attack Bolívar in Europe, an international campaign claiming he aspired to become king or emperor got underway. And he was the first to oppose this idea but, well, if you repeat a lie a hundred times, that ideologue of Nazi propaganda, Goebbels, would say years later, it becomes truth.

 So, many people in Europe and many ordinary people and people of good faith, even friends of Bolívar ended up believing that he aspired to be king or emperor Simón Bolívar.

 It is an old strategy: we believe in unity and others in division, in keeping us divided, in accentuating our differences, in causing problems between us, in impeding the true unification of South America; it is a strategy, I haven’t the slightest doubt. And when the Ambassador of the United States to Bogotá came out and said what he said just a few hours ago, it became clear as water, ladies and gentlemen.

 So, again, I call on someone who I consider a friend, because I don’t believe all the meetings we’ve had, all of the times we have shaken hands, all of the private conversations we’ve had and thoughts we’ve shared, all of the times we have sincerely overcome our differences, I don’t believe any of this was in any way put on, President Uribe. I call, let me repeat, on someone who I consider a friend; let’s say that, in the last months of 2003, my respect for President Uribe has grown.

 I remember that visit he paid us in Maracaibo during the preparations for the referendum. He was even attacked by some spokesmen who questioned his coming to Venezuela, who asked themselves if he came in support of Chávez; and, well, he proved very objective and, what’s more, we started to talk about some very exciting projects, the gas pipeline —could you put the map on the screen, please, to explain the importance of this draft agreement we had reached– a gas pipeline running from La Guajira in Colombia to La Guajira in Venezuela.

 From the time we took office, Venezuela has been pushing for integration with Colombia, regardless of differences and beyond circumstances and criticisms, none of that matters to us. We have said what Sancho Panza said to Don Quixote: “If the dogs are barking, that is because we are riding along”. We made a huge effort. President Uribe even invited me, I couldn’t see him and regretted it immensely, I called him on the phone, and we sent a vice-minister of energy. We were busy with other things and the invitation reached me with but a few days’ notice. I did everything I could, but I really was unable to attend, here in Puerto Carreño, here in this lovely little corner, a very beautiful place, where the Meta river, the Meta river comes from the very heart of Colombia and joins the Orinoco, here in Puerto Carreño, Puerto Páez . (He points it out on the map.)

 After intense work that was not to make profits for Venezuela, we’re supplying them with electricity at fairly generous prices, a reliable and clean source of energy, generated by the hydroelectric plant in Guri, from the plant in Guayana to Puerto Carreño. Puerto Carreño had no electricity, it had a number of old, gas oil plants, like the ones in Sabaneta, I imagine, that were switched on every night by the much-remembered friend Mauricio Herrera; at night, in the afternoon, he would ride by on his bicycle, every afternoon, Rosa Inés Chávez, God rest her soul, and I were sitting there by the parapet of the old house when Mauricio rode by on his bicycle. The electrical plant was about 100 meters away, there in La Laguna, where a huge lake formed in the winter. Don Mauricio would turn the plant on and later, at around 9:00 at night, he would go by again, one already knew why: “They’re going to turn the plant off”, it was an electrical plant, a number of plants, a system of electrical plants, that Puerto Carreño had.

 In my last conversation with President Uribe, I said to him: “We also want to help…” Because here, in the South, more to the South (pointing to the map), near the border with Colombia, there are also Colombian towns that have problems, because they are very far away from generating plants, from the technology --this map’s also useful, it’s in a different scale, but it’s also useful ; here, Puerto Inírida, and these towns here that lie, well, between the Negro and Orinoco rivers, you can see how far away from Bogotá and from any generating plant they are, then, I also said to him: “We’re going to continue looking into it, because we’re going to continue installing plants, that is, hydroelectric plants”. That’s one of the projects we’re working on.

 There’s been enthusiastic talk about a shipping line down the Meta river, the Orinoco and the Meta rivers. I know the Meta river, I’ve sailed down the Meta, I would sail through Cararabo, Buena Vista and Puerto Carreño a lot, on the Colombian side, when I was captain; on the Venezuelan side, I would sail through Cararabo and Puerto Páez, capital of the Pedro Camejo municipality of Apure state.

 Recently, I said to Governor Aguilar Tegames of Apure: “We’re going to analyze the proposal of installing…” Once, I sent the minister of agriculture to a commission over there, with the Navy —I see Maniglia over there—, we’re talking about a project, a great bi-national project, a project to sow a great many African palms, which tend to thrive on the banks of the Meta. This is right on the same parallel as Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, a palm-oil industry leader in the world, and you should see all of the things you can extract from palm oil.

 We’ve talked about all of these and about building palm oil refineries across the immense savannas of the Meta.

 We talked with President Uribe about shipping lines and we said that both of our navies can take this on, and the Venezuelan navy is already working. Last night, Maniglia, I was actually looking over the proposal for a shipping line down the Meta that Admiral Laguna gave me and seeing the obstacles these ships will encounter; we’ve been making technical efforts, investing some money but, above all, we’ve been pouring time and the experience of our naval officers into this project.

 Just now, in Peking, I held talks with the Chinese government about the proposal to construct a multipurpose pipeline here. You know there is a lot of natural gas in Venezuela, both in the eastern banks of the Paraguaná and in the Gulf of Venezuela and soon, this very month, this process will be underway, and we’re going to issue the first prospecting licenses.

 Venezuela has the largest natural gas reserves in the entire continent.

 Two nights ago, the president of one of the largest gas companies in the world, the Russian GazProm, was in Venezuela and we signed a strategic alliance agreement for all of these gas-related projects, both in the mainland and off shore.

 Well, there’s also talk of a multipurpose pipeline, it’s not a bad idea, to pipe gas, fuel and oil derivates along Colombia’s Atlantic coast, the Hacha river, Barranquilla, Cartagena, all of that —Santa Marta is missing here— and to connect it with Central America.

 There’s enough natural gas in Venezuela to meet the needs of all of these nations that need it so badly for development.

 We’ve also talked about bi-national projects here in Alto Apure. The gas pipeline, the preliminary study is at an advanced stage, the first line —the pencil hasn’t turned up, Andrés?— around here, around this area. Colombia has a number of natural gas reserves, and the first study we conducted, I even participated directly in this, paying special attention to it, because President Uribe requested this, and we began to study, the first project was to bring a gas pipeline to Maracaibo, to the eastern bank, where the petrochemical industry is.

 There’s enough gas here, in Colombia, for 5 or 7 years, and we want to pipe this gas here, even if it is not indispensable for us, because you know that we are carrying the IGCO (West-Central Gas Interconnection) project forward; that is to say, western Venezuela has energy shortages because of a lack of strategic vision, a vision and strategy that did not exist —now they do—; but, well, in spite of the fact that we have this project to pipe gas to Paraguaná and spare Zulia the task of having to transport gas to Paraguaná, we decided to undertake this project.

 They say the second proposal that Minister Ramírez brought me following meetings with Colombian and PDVSA technicians is much better, and this is what I personally told President Uribe at the last meeting we had in Cartagena de Indias. I told him, map in hand: “Alvaro, they tell me that it’s better to build it directly to Paraguaná, that it’s less costly”; here, it would have to cross the Maracaibo lake and it would cost less. So, we then decided to press the play button, as they say, to give the project the green light.

 It's also a bi-national and bi-directional project, because when the gas deposits that Colombia has there are used up, these being quite small, it would be used for a very specific gas-supply arrangement for about five years, employing the same pipeline in the opposite direction. That's where the idea of a gas pipeline for all this comes from.

 We even spoke to President Torrijos of Panama, because all the Central American countries need energy and we could easily interconnect from Mexico with a gas pipeline for all that.

 Venezuela has enough potential to make this more than a pipe dream; it's not castles in the air; all this is possible —a real, concrete integration of our peoples.

 As regards bilateral relations. They improved a lot in 2004: the visits by president Uribe, my visits to Colombia, the phone calls; on January 2nd we spoke on the telephone about the next meetings. President Uribe told me he wanted to see the Venezuelan plains. I called him from the plains and he told me: "I want to see your country, Chavez". I don't think this was feigned interest or anything like that. I told him: "The door is open here, Mr. President".

 You'll remember that a campaign began when President Uribe took office, the first meeting, I remember the headlines: "They're to meet, but they're chalk and cheese", and it isn't like that, it isn't like that: we want to work together and discuss the problems and differences,  not to avoid them in any way.

 Then in December, the Colombian defense minister came to Caracas. I couldn't see him, I was out of the country; he met with the Vice President, and our defense minister of course, to discuss issues, to ask for clarification, to explain and confirm our convictions, our guidelines, because what we want is to build peace, not support war. We love Colombia, we hurt for Colombia, we love Colombia a great deal, and we think of ourselves as one people, with one history, one soul.

 Now when these things happen, some international observers look askance, some don't like this,  including some in Colombia and some here in Venezuela; for them it's a disaster. Those who are constantly saber-rattling, the hawks, those on the far right in Bogota and Caracas, some elements of the media who have always stirred divisions, who have always been behind anti-Venezuelan sentiment in Colombia and anti-Colombian attitudes in Venezuela, the war dogs, the hegemonic element in the Americas and the world, they don't like what they are seeing. The ones who want to keep us at loggerheads, that work to keep us divided, are not pleased to witness these sincere, open contacts, just as they will frown on our friendship with Brazil and always try to sow the seeds of discord between the leaders. "Lula and Chavez cold-shoulder each other" they said once. "Lula and Chavez don't see eye to eye". Lies, all lies! But they use the slightest thing to cause a rift, or create a storm in a teacup.

 So the progress we make,  what we've achieved right now in Cuzco, where all the South American presidents signed the document giving birth to the South American Union of Nations, the South American Community of Nations in which Colombia and Venezuela will have a significant part to play, does not sit well with our continent's hegemonic element. The oligarchies that have dominated these peoples, that have exploited these peoples, take a dim view of all this. They don't want us to unite. I have no doubt that these sectors are the breeding ground for the conspiracy to drive a wedge between Venezuela and Colombia, to separate us, to see our relations deteriorate.

 That's why, President Uribe, the press put about that you is saying, according to the press, I don't know if it's true, or a spokesman of yours has said in Bogota, that you were prepared to discuss this topic face-to-face with me at an international summit. In response to this media report, I repeat, I can't vouch for its accuracy but I feel bound to make the following observations:

 I think we should both arm ourselves with wisdom, with patience, to prevent a situation which is the product —I'm sure, I repeat— of a conspiracy of hegemonic elements opposed to integration, who have planned and have carried out and have then incited, I have no doubt that that's the way it is ..., we must live up to the sincere aspirations that arise in the souls of the Colombian and Venezuelan peoples, to find a way out of this situation.

 I certainly do not believe what today's banner headlines in the Venezuelan, Colombian and international press are saying that you said, my friend; I certainly do not believe that this issue should be debated at a summit of heads of state.

 You and I both know what these summits are like. You yourself were criticizing them, my friend, just recently. I have always been critical of them in the sense that they are summits fixed in advance, with a set agenda put together by the professionals, the foreign ministries, and by the time we presidents arrive, the documents are already prepared, the final declarations are already printed and all we do, usually, is make speeches and have lunch. Generally I, among others, have always tried to bring up issues that will invite a debate, as you know, but these debates are nearly always sidelined or cancelled for lack of time. Well, lunch is over, so now we must go for the photo op: in the afternoon, it's time for the picture of the goodbyes and then us all together. So much for summit conferences. I've heard you yourself criticizing this pattern for summits, at one of the latest of the various gatherings we attended in South America at the end of last year.

 So I don't believe, Mr. President that you thought or said, as today's headlines in the Venezuelan press have it ... Have you got the headlines of any Venezuelan papers there? Please. [They hand him a newspaper]. Ah yes! Look, here it is in El Nacional —get the camera on this— the headline reads "Uribe offers to debate with Chavez face to face at a summit". No? It seems that the press secretary at the Nariño Palace was the one who said it.

 Incidentally, I should clarify the following: the El Nacional daily and a few other Venezuelan and Colombian papers have been getting this and attributing it to President Uribe, saying he had said it to me in November 2002.

 To quote: "If someone in your government" --this is Uribe to Chavez-- "shelters a Colombian terrorist, I guarantee you we'll take action and get him out". You can be quite sure that President Uribe never said this to me, and if he had, I obviously wouldn't have accepted it. If he'd said that, the progress we've made in 2003 and especially 2004 would have been impossible. So this is false and President Uribe should deny it, through whatever channels he pleases, because it's totally false, not to mention unacceptable between heads of state. 

 It's as if I said to a neighbor I'm supposed to be on good terms with: "Look here, if your boy gets into my garden…"  or something of the sort among the things that happen between neighbors, "he'll feel my stick on his back!" or, I don't now, "I'll tie him to a tree". Is that the way to treat a neighbor who wants to be a good neighbor? Nobody would accept that. So this is totally false; but still, they're putting it out, they're putting it out. These are the elements behind the troublemaking, behind the hegemonic, imperialist, divisionist interests.

 Media like El Nacional in Venezuela lend themselves to this, and today they publish this story, which wasn't a statement by President Uribe.

 President Uribe, given how important this issue is, I ask you to clarify whether this is really a proposal of yours, because I've not had an offer or request of any kind on these lines, and if one arrived —it's now vox pop, and people hear it so often they think it must be true, such is the power of the media— the answer would be no. No, we must talk about this, face to face of course; I'd like that. But the key issue isn't the communiqué the Colombian government now wants to put center stage. The key issue is not, President Uribe, as this odd, inexplicable communiqué which has emerged from the Casa de Nariño or Government House in Bogota suggests --despite not having been signed by President Uribe or the Foreign Minister but this is the voice of the Casa de Nariño, isn’t it? In other words, behind this there is you, the chief of that establishment is the one that is speaking, no doubt.  It is not, as the communiqué that we were studying very closely today, point by point, with Foreign Minister Alí Rodríguez as there will be a communiqué in reply from the foreign ministry here. Yesterday, we took our time, so as not to act hastily or let ourselves be pressured by anything or anybody: clear heads and straight thinking as far as possible, and a very calm approach.

 So it's strange to read this statement, which tries now to say or to put at the center of the debate now underway Washington’s allegation, notably maintained for some time also by Bogota, that Venezuela has become a sort of sanctuary for terrorists.

 See for yourselves where all this is coming from. What a coincidence! Editorials in two of the biggest daily newspapers in the US also attacking Venezuela! Do you see where all this is coming from? A new anti-Venezuela campaign has been mounted in Washington, via the main daily newspapers and US government spokesmen,  always the same. Well, the priest of San Juan de Dios said to his lay assistant: "You can shake your hips as much as you like, but your ballast is still there for all to see". The source of the conspiracy is as clear as day. The US ambassador in Bogota has already pronounced on the subject, attacking Venezuela. We have no doubts on that score. 

 That's why that is not the issue, President Uribe. The question we must discuss, you and I,  face to face as the Venezuelan press says or personally, as I would rather say, because "face to face" has connotations of aggression, as if our meeting was to be in a boxing ring; no, no, between two heads of state.  You told me you wanted to see the Barinas plains; I invite you to the Barinas plains, and not because of pressure from anybody, President Uribe. I invite you for a walk on the savannah, for a dialogue.  The key issue that should be discussed here and that your government, my friend Mr. President, should recognize, is that a crime was committed here.  That's the problem, that's the real problem, that's the heart of the matter, isn't it? The rest can and should be discussed also, but later, it's secondary. What we are denouncing is backed by evidence to hand, sufficient evidence, Mr. President; you should not believe the lies that may reach your ears, just as I not try not to believe any that come my way.

 But Mr. President, I want to tell you the following: a good friend, someone I now regard as a good friend, ex-President Samper, while he was president of Colombia he was induced by lies to believe that Comandante Hugo Chavez, just released from jail, was organizing training camps for a guerrilla army (which someone dubbed the 'Gran Colombiana-Bolivariana') on the Arauca and Meta borders, and moreover that this Comandante Chavez had led the assault at Cararabo and had killed Venezuelan soldiers. The lies of the Colombian intelligence agency with the support of the Venezuelan intelligence agency made President Samper believe that farce, which placed him in a very embarrassing situation. I had to go to Bogota, where I said to him: "OK, here I am at the mercy of Colombia. Throw me in jail". And they were going to; but in the end I left,  I was there for three days.

 By the way, the Venezuelan government of that time remained silent, and silence implies consent. There was more or less a deal between sectors of both nations or both countries to try to commit political assassination on that Comandante Chávez, who was roaming about out there like the wandering Jew, excuse the expression — someone once said like the Lone Ranger — from city to city, street to street in those years of 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997.

 Then President Uribe, if it is really your intention that we discuss this issue, I accept. However, not in a meeting with other presidents, no. This is an exclusively bilateral issue and the heart of the matter, the core that has to be discussed has to do with the crime that was committed here.

 I urge the Colombian government to acknowledge this. The Colombian government, President Uribe, should not endorse a crime —that would be a very serious matter. Machiavelli once said, “When facts accuse, results excuse”.

 “In the name of the fight against terrorism” they say in Bogotá. Let us assume that it were so. Are they going to violate the sovereignty of neighboring countries? Are they going to incite their citizens and officials to commit crime? Are they going to launch a campaign to corrupt and bribe officials, this time it was Venezuelan officials, tomorrow it could be Brazilian, Ecuadorian, Panamanian, or those from any other country in the world. No, President Uribe, you shouldn’t do that. This violates International Law, this shows disrespect for the sovereignty of other states, and this makes no contribution to good neighborliness, to the openness, to the trust that is essential if we are to undertake those projects. That is why, until this matter is cleared up, I have ordered a halt to all the projects we have been working on with Colombia.

 We need trust if we are to be able to talk of a gas pipeline, of electric projects, of palm-oil projects, of trade projects, etcetera. We need the trust good neighbors have.

 If you, President Uribe knew… That is why I insist. Here, in the bottom of my heart, I believe that President Uribe knew nothing of this operation; because a day before Granda was captured we were together in Cuzco. President Uribe didn’t go to Ayacucho, but he was in Cuzco on December 8, in the South America meeting and we spoke there, we talked. Then he couldn’t go to Ayacucho on December 9 and on December 10 we were in Maracay, on Air Force Day. Granda wasn’t caught that day, but that was the day when a group of Venezuelan police captured a group of Colombian police operating in our territory. Then three days later Granda was kidnapped here in Caracas, a kidnapping coordinated by the Colombian police with the support of a group of Venezuelan officials, a group of soldiers. Thus far we have no evidence that any other civilian body was involved and I have to tell you that right now the Venezuelan soldiers who were involved in this —and this is a really deplorable, really painful thing— are all under arrest and have already been convicted and have already confessed and have given details, details, President Uribe, that you should hear.

 This is one of the things that I wanted to raise with you, this is the core of the matter; how did Colombian officials spend several months bribing Venezuelan officials, inviting them to commit this crime; how did the Colombian police get into Venezuela; how much did they pay. We now know how much they gave them, an advance, they haven’t paid them in full, they gave them an advance and they bought a car, one of them bought a car. We even have the car.

 If Colombia thinks that the politics of reward is legitimate, well, no one can take away a state’s freedom to define politics inside its own territory, but not outside that territory, not outside its territory and even less can it bribe another government’s officials behind that government’s back. No, we can’t have that, which would be to fall into an abyss.

 So, President Uribe, if I there is any truth in what appears in the press, I would be willing to speak with you personally, but not about the subject mentioned in the communiqué from the Casa de Nariño, no; about the crime that was committed here, and above all, I repeat, the Colombian government must offer its apologies, because, in the first place, it must admit that it was in the wrong.

 Look, the Colombian police first said that they caught Granda in Cúcuta, and when people began to ask, “Well, where and how did you catch him”… The police generally leave testimonies, witnesses to these events, generally. Sometimes they film or record the capture to have reliable evidence. In this case there were no witnesses, nothing, and then they contradicted each other. “No, it was in the street”, “No, it was in a hotel” , said another. First they said no, they had not paid any reward, and then they said “yes”. They started off by contradicting themselves, which was what first alerted me, us, until we realized what the truth was.

 Now some thoughts for Venezuela, for Colombia, and for the world, which is listening to us and watching us with a great deal of attention here today on Aló Presidente.

 Just suppose that the way the Colombian police force behaved was accepted as legitimate, as valid even. Well, that would be, as I said, a leap into the abyss, it would be a step toward the abyss. Why? Because, just imagine that I at this time know where in Bogotá a Venezuelan terrorist, a coup supporter, can be found, a man who, in this very hall, swore himself in as president of this country while I was a prisoner and while the people of Caracas and of Venezuela were being massacred. Countless lives were lost here, wounded, dead, terrorism.

 Pedro Carmona is there in Bogotá. Could I then say, President Uribe, that Colombia is giving refuge to terrorists? Because you see, if we are going to use it in that way, so recklessly, I could say that Columbia is violating the United Nations agreement where it reads that no state can give refuge to terrorists. Is Pedro Carmona a terrorist or not? Let us go over what happened here. Yes he is, we can conclude. But no, I must respect international law.

 That gentleman was a prisoner here but he escaped from his house; a court had sent him home because of his age and who knows what else but off he went to the Colombian embassy and the Colombian government, not Uribe’s government, Pastrana’s, decided to grant him asylum. As soon as they told me of Colombia’s decision, even though I did not agree with it, but Colombia is within its rights, I provided an airplane in La Carlota and I said: “Take him to Bogotá”. And they took him to Bogotá immediately.

 Venezuela has always respected international law. I remember the case of Mr. Ballesta, wanted in Colombia. They wanted to kidnap him and take him there, we found out and we prevented them. He was in jail for several months here for having forged documents. Colombia then did what it behooved it to do. I remember that I spoke to President Pastrana and I said: “President Pastrana, if Colombia has evidence, any request…” It seems that he had been involved in hi-jacking a plane, he was indeed involved. Colombia sent the evidence, the request for extradition, several months went by, naturally, until Venezuela decided to accede to the extradition. And as soon as the Supreme Court of Justice, which is the body here which decides upon matters of extradition, took its decision, I similarly sent a plane to take Mr. Ballesta, take him where? To Bogotá, and they have him in prison there.

 The Montesinos case. Do you remember the impasse there was with the then government of Peru. The Peruvian minister of the interior landed a military plane in Valencia, they wanted to take Montesinos. We were then in the midst of a crisis with the interim government they had in Peru then before Toledo came on the scene. Well, there was that Peruvian minister, with a plane, soldiers and all in Valencia, it was nuts. Nevertheless, for the sake of fraternity and good neighborliness, I was in Canada at the Summit of the Americas when I was told, and I said, “Well, search the plane and then let them take it back to Peru”. So that minister, who was a prisoner inside that plane in Valencia, was released and went off in the plane to Peru.

 “Ah, no, see, Chávez is protecting Montesinos, Chávez has him hidden away somewhere, Venezuela has become…” We had only just captured Montesinos here, it was June 24, I remember, and in two shakes of a lamb’s tail he was in Peru. We have always acted correctly in those matters.

So, if your government, President Uribe, my friend, has information about the presence here of any Colombian citizen who is wanted for any reason whatsoever —the person could be a murderer, could be a criminal of any sort,  white collar, black collar, could be a drug dealer, a terrorist, a guerrilla— anyone who has a case pending against him or her in Colombia, well, you have to ask my government for him or her, ask the Venezuelan state. Suppose that I then respond by demanding an eye for an eye, which of course I am not going to do. “An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth” and I start to send commandos and offer millions of dollars to have Carmona brought to me. Perhaps they will bring him, because when money is involved —well Judas sold Christ for a few coins—  they begin to offer millions of dollars and begin to bribe officials and there are people, unfortunately, who are weak and fall, as those Venezuelans fell, the surest bet is that they will ruin their careers. We are going to come down on those officials with the full force of the law, within the confines of the rule of law. But no one who lends himself to a crime like this, against the sovereignty of his own homeland can be a soldier when the first thing a soldier must hold sacred is his homeland’s sovereignty, they teach us that from our first year as cadets. But, well, weakness is all around.

A lieutenant colonel that had already given back 10 million bolivares which he received in Cúcuta… The Venezuelan lieutenant colonel went over to Cúcuta to hand over the kidnapped man, he handed him over to a Cúcuta police commander and received the first part of his money; they told him they would give him the other half later. And  there are Colombian government officials implicated in this, civilians and soldiers. This is a crime, President Uribe, this is a crime, and it can’t be allowed to happen. So, a kidnapping took place, and a kidnapping is a kidnapping no matter who does it, no matter if the FARC or the drug traffickers kidnap, no matter if the paramilitary or Colombian government officials kidnap, it is kidnapping, with the complicity of Venezuelan officials, kidnapping! That is a crime and one of the most abhorrent, one of the most abhorrent.

Just suppose that, right now, I order a commando and offer millions of dollars to have, for example, some retired generals, coup plotters, who are in Panama brought here. I know where they live and everything. Ah, but I spoke to President Torrijos, I spoke about it with President Torrijos, like that, as a friend. But I would never do anything behind Torrijos’ back, and if any Venezuelan official did, well then, I would apply the law to the Venezuelan. I will never endorse such behavior.

There are three from the pro-coup faction living in the Dominican Republic, including two of those who were going to have me shot on the night of April 12, they had me ready for the grill, as it says in El Llano, except that God intervened and some lads turned up, other soldiers with guns, and said, “If you kill this man you will have to kill all of us here”. There on the seashore, God intervened. But they had me ready to shoot me. Pedro Carmona, who is in Bogotá had given the order. I have witnesses, in fact there are some fellows right here.

You know that oligarchies generally think that waiters and janitors are not people, it’s as if they don’t exist. So Pedro Carmona, in front of  the waiters and other people, gave the order: “Take Chávez away and let him wake up dead”.  That’s it, yes. Let it look like there was an attempt to escape, that they were going to rescue him and, well, Chávez died. And what’s more, since Chávez is a murderer who killed many people, well he who lives by the sword must die by the sword”. The perfect strategy, except that God and a group of young Venezuelan lads and all the Venezuelan people intervened. And I am standing here thanks to God. But I saw the face of the Grim Reaper (Laughter) I did. What ‘s up? I said. I was ready to go off. God and the people and those young soldiers, those comrades who are the people in uniform, brought me back.

Now, am I going to order or to offer a reward, as if it were something personal and send a group there? I have quite a few friends in Colombia, they could do something; I have quite a few friends in the Dominican Republic, a lot. Am I going to send Venezuelan soldiers or police to bribe, to offer millions of dollars to a group of Dominicans to kidnap those Venezuelans and bring them here? I could do it, believe me, I could do it,  but I’m not going to do it because I would be violating international law and the sovereignty of that country and the respect I owe to the Dominican president and, more than to him, to the Dominican people. One cannot do that.

And you, my friend, President Uribe, I invite you one more time to set things straight, to admit that officials from your government, without you knowing about it, because I am absolutely sure that you didn’t know, I saw you two days before, a week before, in Cuzco and we signed the birth certificate of the South American Community of Nations, and we were talking about the gas pipeline and the oil pipe line, about cooperation between our two peoples, about you coming to Venezuela again soon for another meeting, about the petrol problem on the border, about the Cartagena refinery, about all that and I do not believe that you had any knowledge of this. But don’t let yourself, my friend, don’t let yourself now be carried away by solidarity or by something or because they confuse you. I think that you must admit the mistake that your officials made, you must take the steps that you feel appropriate there, in Colombia, and after you have done that, come, and I offer you my hand. Meanwhile, I will discuss no other matter. For me, and believe me, for millions, all of us in Venezuela who take that stance, and if some Venezuelans take another, they are simply an exception. But here we are, all Venezuelans, civilian and military, millions of Venezuelans whom I represent when I say that I will discuss no other subject but that. A crime was committed here, Venezuelan sovereignty was infringed and Venezuela must have restitution, and that’s your job, Mr. President, my friend. Say hello to Colombia.

After that long but necessary editorial comment —that wasn’t going to be the beginning of the program— I found myself obliged, as a result of the information and analyses and mostly because of reflecting, meditating deeply from the early hours of the morning, obliged to start the program this way with an affectionate hello to Colombia and I ask us to give a hand to our sister, Colombia. And I say that no one can slow down the process of integration between Colombia and Venezuela, no one will be able to, no matter how much power they have, to stop the South American integration process.

The South American Community of Nations has been born, so we are going to give it a helping hand: Colombia, Venezuela, Brazil and all of us united, all together.

Lula is coming soon; I talked to him the day before yesterday on the phone and the president of Brazil is coming to visit us and we are going to make progress on, to push forward with the projects that are underway between Brazil and Venezuela, another series of strategic projects for alliances in the field of energy, in areas related to the infrastructure, in mining, in civil and military aviation and in tourism.

On Monday February 14, President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva will come to visit us to continue giving this helping hand. This year we will also be visited by President Ricardo Lagos, I spoke to him a few days ago. He is in Egypt now, he told me he was going to Egypt, the president of Chile. We shall shortly be meeting with the Argentinean president, Nestor Kirchner. We shall shortly be attending the ceremony when Tabaré Vázquez takes office in Uruguay. Soon I shall go to Bolivia; we have an official invitation from President Mesa of Bolivia. And all of this in favor of South American integration, no one nor anything can prevent it; it was Bolívar’s, Abreu Elima’s, San Martín’s dream. They failed, which is why Bolívar said “I have ploughed the sea”. Not now, 200 years later, now is when South American integration has begun to see the light of day and to grow strong.